Zach Ryder

Once WWE got their hands on Z!TLIS, his push went to shit. What made it cool was that it was him doing it on his own, saying what he wanted and doing what he wanted. WWE edited it so much and and pretty much buried the show and Ryder's push. I'm not sure if creative differences are what killed the push but it wouldn't surprise me as the E never likes to push anything they didn't have a hand in creating. They just didn't get what made the show great and it suffered all the way around because of it. Chux???

Like I said I wasn't the biggest fan, although he didn't bother me that much. But that's really lame and blows for him. Thanks for answering me. I was always really curious about him and whatever happened

Once WWE got their hands on Z!TLIS, his push went to shit. What made it cool was that it was him doing it on his own, saying what he wanted and doing what he wanted. WWE edited it so much and and pretty much buried the show and Ryder's push. I'm not sure if creative differences are what killed the push but it wouldn't surprise me as the E never likes to push anything they didn't have a hand in creating. They just didn't get what made the show great and it suffered all the way around because of it. Chux???

Like you said, WWE won't push anything they didn't make, but the role he had was only ever going to last a short time. He got over because he spoke up about being underpushed. He made jokes about trying to get over and whatever, and then when he did get over and he did get a nice little push there was nothing left to get behind.

Recently he posted a video teasing that Long Island Story was coming back, but stopped a few seconds in and said "I can't do this anymore." Which makes me wonder why he started it, did all the post-production work and then uploaded it, but whatever. Since then he's been on TV once or twice with un-spiked hair and had been getting a bit of an attitude on Twitter, which was supposedly to suggest he was going a bit more serous, but that didn't happen. It looks like he's back to where he was before all this started, the use me or fire me mentality.

I'm honestly surprised they haven't let him go. I just felt like they tend to do that with guys. That point about once they pushed him and his whole thing was being underpushed and then there was nothing left to get behind makes a lot of sense.

The nail in the coffin was him being made to look like a dumbass love struck teenager with Eve. They made him really unpushable. He had a ton of momentum but the fact that they had him get smashed by Kane for a month and then after the series of really good matches he had with Ziggler, he was squashed in two minutes by Jack Swagger. Never got a legit rematch for the title and he disappeared. They had a star in him. He was over with the people which is more than they can say for Alberto Del Rio. He is already a heel and he had to turn on his announcer to get heel heat. Ryder is not a main event talent but he was definitely US title material. He was over huge. There were numerous options for him to keep the push going by they just gave up on him like so many others before him. It's a sad reality of the WWE.

Yeah I remember him being squashed by Kane. During that whole "Embrace the hate" angle with Cena. He looked so weak after that

then again...

Santino was made to look like a jobber forever, and then he got in that hell in a cell and everyone was freaking out thinking that he might have a have to win....

and don't forget the royal rumble, everyone thinking that he won for a brief second and giving a pop like made right before he was the last guy eliminated by Del Rio from behind.

in wwe's mind, being made to look weak is totally forgettable.

Remember when brock came back and just beat the shit out of miz in like 5 seconds? 3 months later, they had a 10 minute match like they were equals for a few minutes.

They should have have a Cena and Ryder match, because Ryder thought Cena stole Eve. Even though Ryder wouldn't win, making him look competitive would've been a huge rub, bigger of a rub than if he went over Kane.

I don't get the point of any superstar looking like a jobber. It doesn't make any sense. The brand would be way better off if everyone looked like a legit threat at all times. Instead they focus on one person to sell T-Shirts and stuff instead of focusing on the whole roster. They could make more money if everyone looked competitive. I never really liked the idea of squash matches either.

Last edited by Sery (Wed-7-Aug-2013 04:28:30)

They should have have a Cena and Ryder match, because Ryder thought Cena stole Eve. Even though Ryder wouldn't win, making him look competitive would've been a huge rub, bigger of a rub than if he went over Kane.

I don't get the point of any superstar looking like a jobber. It doesn't make any sense. The brand would be way better off if everyone looked like a legit threat at all times. Instead they focus on one person to sell T-Shirts and stuff instead of focusing on the whole roster. They could make more money if everyone looked competitive. I never really liked the idea of squash matches either.

I agree with this. During Rhysus rise, probably either right before or right after his Hell in a Cell match with CM Punk. He fought Dolph Ziggler on Main Event and it was a basic squash match. Ziggler ran away, got destroyed, escaped for a minute, came back and get destroyed again. Wtf was the point of that? And now they're pushing him.....

I really can't stand when they do crap like that.

They should have have a Cena and Ryder match, because Ryder thought Cena stole Eve. Even though Ryder wouldn't win, making him look competitive would've been a huge rub, bigger of a rub than if he went over Kane.

I don't get the point of any superstar looking like a jobber. It doesn't make any sense. The brand would be way better off if everyone looked like a legit threat at all times. Instead they focus on one person to sell T-Shirts and stuff instead of focusing on the whole roster. They could make more money if everyone looked competitive. I never really liked the idea of squash matches either.

I agree with this. During Rhysus rise, probably either right before or right after his Hell in a Cell match with CM Punk. He fought Dolph Ziggler on Main Event and it was a basic squash match. Ziggler ran away, got destroyed, escaped for a minute, came back and get destroyed again. Wtf was the point of that? And now they're pushing him.....

I really can't stand when they do crap like that.

Rhys had a cell match with Punk? 😮

Lol. Can't you see I'm 4CW first!

Ryback*

Yeah I remember him being squashed by Kane. During that whole "Embrace the hate" angle with Cena. He looked so weak after that

Did anything ever happen with that angle?  I thought maybe it would lead to a Heel Cena.

I think it just kinda faded away, no?

lol

Heel Cena = Unicorn

It's simply because he isn't that good. I never believed WWE try to de-push people or make them less popular because they don't like them personally or because they had nothing to do with it. I just simply think he wasn't good enough in the ring and he was never really that over to begin with.

It's simply because he isn't that good. I never believed WWE try to de-push people or make them less popular because they don't like them personally or because they had nothing to do with it. I just simply think he wasn't good enough in the ring and he was never really that over to begin with.

They have push guys with way less talent for longer periods of time. Ryder is a good mechanic in the ring. He sells well. He has loads of charisma. He's not the best at anything but he is a solid upper mid carder. US or IC level. He isn't any worse than Curtis Axel in the ring and he is miles better on the mic. The WWE just wanted to prove a point with him. They don't see him as a star and the people got behind him. They pushed him strong to give them what they wanted and then let everyone know that they are in control and they killed his show and his push. Steve Austin, John Cena, Hulk Hogan. Three of the biggest names in the history of the business. Austin was never seen as a star before King of the Ring 1996 and the Austin 3:16 promo. Even in his prime he wasn't the best wrestler in the company. He punched, kicked, Thez Press, maybe a swinging neckbreaker in there sometimes and then the Stunner. He had a fucking original, fantastic gimmick which was an amplified version of himself and he got over. Everyone knows Cena is an athletic Austin in the ring. Limited moveset with a gimmick that is an amplified version of himself and it's made him millions. Hogan, again very basic in the ring but his gimmick and charisma were original and huge at the time.

Don't get it twisted, I know Ryder isn't on their level overall but he has the charisma, he has an original gimmick that got over in a huge way when he was allowed to be himself. He wasn't given enough time to shine. They gave him just enough and then killed it. They didn't like that they had no hand in creating it. Hell, even Austin had to get the green light to become Stone Cold. Ryder used the internet without permission to get himself over and it worked and the E hated it. This is why he is a jobber again.

2 things is disagree with there. 1, before the neck injury Austin was one of the best in ring in the business. That's why people thought he was wasted in WCW, he was so much better than the main eventers there, but well documented politics held him down. 2, WWE didn't purposely bury Ryder to stick it to their fans. They don't hate their fans, they like making money. They had Ryder, Punk, and Bryan in the ring at the same time and Punk said this was the future. Ryder's problem is just what was said earlier, his whole appeal was he was complaining about not getting a shot. Once he got that shot, the fans realized he wasn't that interesting. Why would a publicly owned company keep paying an employee and purposely bury him? If they didn't think they could make money and make the shareholders happy they would cut him. He just didn't connect with the fans, that Jersey Shore gimmick has a limited shelf life. I personally never got why the Internet got behind Ryder, even his show was midly amusing at best, and more often than not very corny. The truth is WWE gave him a shot, and he just wasn't that good

Why would a publicly owned company keep paying an employee and purposely bury him? If they didn't think they could make money and make the shareholders happy they would cut him.

Why did they completely bury WCW? They could still be making money from that if they'd done it right, but instead Vince had to kill anything that he didn't make.

Why would a publicly owned company keep paying an employee and purposely bury him? If they didn't think they could make money and make the shareholders happy they would cut him.

Why did they completely bury WCW? They could still be making money from that if they'd done it right, but instead Vince had to kill anything that he didn't make.

They didn't bury the company. They bought it and merged. You don't see The Manufacturers logo on Chase banks, because Chase bought it. They kept and pushed all the employees worth a shit, and even some that weren't (looking at you Buff Bagwell). Did you really want them to keep WCW intact and have 1 company try to run a RAW and Nitro every week? I can't even imagine what a cluster fuck that would be

Why would a publicly owned company keep paying an employee and purposely bury him? If they didn't think they could make money and make the shareholders happy they would cut him.

Why did they completely bury WCW? They could still be making money from that if they'd done it right, but instead Vince had to kill anything that he didn't make.

They didn't bury the company. They bought it and merged. You don't see The Manufacturers logo on Chase banks, because Chase bought it. They kept and pushed all the employees worth a shit, and even some that weren't (looking at you Buff Bagwell). Did you really want them to keep WCW intact and have 1 company try to run a RAW and Nitro every week? I can't even imagine what a cluster fuck that would be

Of course they were going to merge, but was it totally necessary to bury RVD, Booker, DDP and the others? They didn't have the really big names, but they had something to work with. Or would have, if they'd even considered it. The only Alliance guys who were allowed to look like threats were Austin and Angle, neither of whom were actually from WCW. And speaking of the bigger names they didn't get at first, when they did eventually pick them up, what happened? nWo, buried. Steiner, berried. Goldberg, pretty much berried. Mysterio, never taken seriously. Vince wanted to prove that his brand was superior, and the result is what we got.

And if they did want to keep the WCW brand around, it wouldn't have been difficult. They had Raw and SmackDown, why not Raw and Nitro instead? Or Raw and Thunder? It wouldn't have been any messier than it was.

But back to the point. Vince has a long history of not wanting to use things he didn't create. From repackaging Dusty Rhodes to making a mockery of ECW.

None of them were buried. Nash blew his leg out in his first match and Hall was an alcoholic. Steiner and Goldberg both got main events, and sucked. Steiner got booed out of the place his match with HHH was so bad. The invasion angle was shitty, I'll give you that, but everyone else you mentioned except DDP had heavyweight championship reigns or at least matches for the top titles. How is that burying someone?

None of them were buried. Nash blew his leg out in his first match and Hall was an alcoholic. Steiner and Goldberg both got main events, and sucked. Steiner got booed out of the place his match with HHH was so bad. The invasion angle was shitty, I'll give you that, but everyone else you mentioned except DDP had heavyweight championship reigns or at least matches for the top titles. How is that burying someone?

I'll counter that with how only Goldberg actually got the belt, and he didn't have it long. And again, the Alliance was headed by two WWF guys and managed by two McMahons when they had enough top name outsider talent to make a solid team. Vince didn't trust them to be good enough, or at least didn't want anyone other than his own guys to be competitive.

I'm not saying Steiner didn't suck, he did, but he had a lot of momentum after his debut and could have been a contender if he hadn't been completely squashed by Triple H. The WCW guys were all just there to put Triple H over, from Booker to Goldberg to Nash to Steiner. Getting a title match doesn't mean anything really, if the guy is never really a contender.

RVD, Booker T, Goldberg, Mysterio, and Hogan got title reigns. Hogan I'll admit doesn't count, but he came back with the nWo, which was arguably the greatest thing that Vince didn't come up with. And he beat HHH. Let's not forget Benoit, Eddie, Jericho, and to a lesser extent the Big Show. I'm not saying I'm in favor of HHH being dominant as long as he was. I'm not saying the invasion angle was well done. They were both bad ideas. The reasoning behind them wasn't to crush these idiots and make them look like chumps, because they weren't Vince brainchildren. The creative team at the time simply thought those ideas would sell the most tickets, merch, and PPVs. When quarterly reports come in and the other board members want to know why buyrates are low, Vince can't say "fuck you, I hate Scott Steiner." Right or wrong, then genuinely thought what they were doing was best for business. Wrong, of course, but I don't think we're debating that.

So anyway back to Zack Ryder, he got himself slightly over and was given a shot. He did well for a while. They thought they had an awesome idea with the Eve angle. It sucked. Now they aren't sure what to do with Ryder, and the fans are over him. So now it's not that someone wants him off TV, it's that there's no reason to put him back on TV. He needs to hang on until someone else's push fizzles out, collect his checks, bust his ass, and stop whining on twitter.

RVD, Booker T, Goldberg, Mysterio, and Hogan got title reigns. Hogan I'll admit doesn't count, but he came back with the nWo, which was arguably the greatest thing that Vince didn't come up with. And he beat HHH. Let's not forget Benoit, Eddie, Jericho, and to a lesser extent the Big Show. I'm not saying I'm in favor of HHH being dominant as long as he was. I'm not saying the invasion angle was well done. They were both bad ideas. The reasoning behind them wasn't to crush these idiots and make them look like chumps, because they weren't Vince brainchildren. The creative team at the time simply thought those ideas would sell the most tickets, merch, and PPVs. When quarterly reports come in and the other board members want to know why buyrates are low, Vince can't say "fuck you, I hate Scott Steiner." Right or wrong, then genuinely thought what they were doing was best for business. Wrong, of course, but I don't think we're debating that.

Benoit, Eddie, Jericho, and Show were all left WCW before they folded and they were rewarded for it. DDP was brought in and given a shitty stalker gimmick to put over Taker. WCW guy who came after they folded were used to put over the WWE's top talent to assert WWE's dominance in the eyes of the fans. Booker T had the most success of any of the other WCW guys because he was willing to pay his WWE dues. He lost his belt to The Rock almost instantly and they quickly merged that with the WWE title as to get the WCW stink off it. He stuck through the shampoo feud with Edge. He was eliminated within a minute in his first Royal Rumble. Lost his first Wrestlemania match. Get's booted from the nWo for being black. Get's in a racist title feud with HHH. It was 5 years before Booker was given the opportunity to hold the World Heavyweight Championship again. Every other WCW guy was gone at that point. Booker showed loyalty and he was finally rewarded.

So anyway back to Zack Ryder, he got himself slightly over and was given a shot. He did well for a while. They thought they had an awesome idea with the Eve angle. It sucked. Now they aren't sure what to do with Ryder, and the fans are over him. So now it's not that someone wants him off TV, it's that there's no reason to put him back on TV. He needs to hang on until someone else's push fizzles out, collect his checks, bust his ass, and stop whining on twitter.

He was still getting "We want Ryder" chants up until the Eve/Kane/Cena deal. That killed him because he was booked to look like a dumbass that couldn't hang. They should have had him be the underdog winner vs. Kane. He was tailor made for that spot but they just buried him. He was at one point, one of the top 3 most popular win the promotion with Punk and Cena. They sold the shit out of his merchandise. He was all over social media. You can't tell me that if they wanted to, they couldn't have made him a long term star. They just killed him.

Wait, you were just saying how Vince doesn't push anything he didn't come up with, but then you're saying he will push them if the timing is right? It's a whole lot of reaching, jumping to conclusions, and justifications, when what's really happening is so much simpler. Sometimes creative has good ideas, sometimes they have bad ideas, and sometimes they have no ideas. Honestly, who is getting a push on TV right now that is taking Ryder's spot, so to speak. You mentioned Axle. They needed another Heyman guy. I don't see Ryder working for that role. Maybe 3MB, but they're basically jobbers. That wouldn't help his cause much. I really think the writers are scratching their heads and shrugging their shoulders when it comes to Zack Ryder, and moving forward with their other plans. Maybe he could go for a complete repackaging